{"id":72623,"date":"2020-02-27T09:15:06","date_gmt":"2020-02-27T09:15:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/coforge.site\/cigniti_new\/?post_type=product&p=72623"},"modified":"2024-10-18T13:11:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-18T13:11:17","slug":"role-of-ai-in-qa-with-kevin-pyles","status":"publish","type":"product","link":"https:\/\/coforge.site\/cigniti_new\/resource\/podcasts\/role-of-ai-in-qa-with-kevin-pyles\/","title":{"rendered":"The Role of AI in QA with Kevin Pyles"},"content":{"rendered":"

You are listening to QA talks, a podcast for quality assurance executives implementing digital transformation in their organizations. In this show, we focus on the unique pitfalls inherent in quality assurance and quality engineering and how these executives are navigating them to position their organization for the future. Let’s get in<\/span><\/i>to the show.<\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Welcome back to\u00a0<\/span>QA<\/span>\u00a0Talks.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>I’m Logan Lyles with Sweet Fish Media. Your host for today’s episode. I’m joined today by Kevin Pyles. He is the director of QA at Domo, as well as call P<\/span>resident at\u00a0<\/span>Cigniti<\/span>\u00a0Technologies. Gentlemen, welcome to the show today.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Thanks for having us.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Thank you. Thanks for having me.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Awesome. Well, Kevin, I want to introduce you first. So<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0Kevin is a proven leader across multi-disciplinary teams, overcoming challenges of downsizing, restructuring<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and growth, all of which provide different challenges, providing vision and opportunities to improve teams and facilitate career advancement for individuals. He has an excellent track record of overcoming and breaking down departmental barriers, leading to communication, strategy<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and partnerships across different functional teams. Kevin has established vision and leadership to implement new technology stacks to initiate and foster better quality and efficiencies in teams and departmental output.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin, I would love for you to kick us off with a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the team at Domo have been up to these days.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Well, thanks for having me again. And yeah, my career started off in support and moved its way over to quality assurance<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And\u00a0<\/span>like so many others<\/span>, w<\/span>hen you get into quality assurance, maybe land there and you think, what am I doing? Is this where I really want to be?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>But for me, it’s just super exciting to break stuff. And I love the fact that I can break stuff and somebody else gets to fix it. So<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0it’s like a dream come true.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Loga<\/span><\/b>n:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I love that.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>And then<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0when it comes to\u00a0<\/span>Domo\u00a0<\/span>and where we’re at, we’re just working\u00a0really hard\u00a0at what the future of testing is going to look like. It seems like for many years, testing, it was even stagnant. There’s been very little change. But now with\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0and just a lot of players in this space, we’re seeing a lot of developments that\u00a0<\/span>QA<\/span>\u00a0engineers now have to be really on top of their game and looking forward to what’s coming and learning new tools, techniques, frameworks, whatever else comes out and applying that to their testing trade.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>So, yeah, we’re crushing it over here at\u00a0<\/span>Domo\u2019s<\/span>\u00a0as much as we can and really excited for the future.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah, absolutely. I love the way that you describe, one landing in\u00a0<\/span>QA<\/span>. And then also<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>what\u00a0<\/span>that means you get to break stuff that other people\u00a0have to\u00a0fix.\u00a0<\/span>That’s\u00a0<\/span>fantastic. And you touched on a hot topic that I think is going to be a good portion of our conversation today<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>Kevin, and\u00a0<\/span>that\u2019s AI.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>We’ll\u00a0<\/span>circle back on that in just a moment. For now, I want to give a little bit more introduction and context for listeners, for\u00a0<\/span>Cigniti.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So<\/span>,<\/span> I<\/span>n his current role, he <\/span>is responsible for driving revenue growth and ensuring client success for the business<\/span>\u00a0unit<\/span>\u00a0including operational planning, sales management, marketing, partnership alliances, customer success, designing custom solutions<\/span>,<\/span> and ensuring great service delivery. His entire experience was in software testing and quality engineering. <\/span>I would love for you to share a little bit more background on what you and your team are up to these days.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Your experience obviously lends itself to some great expertise to the podcast today. We’d love for you to introduce yourself to listeners as well.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Absolutely.\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span> Cigniti <\/span>and I started my career in software testing and\u00a0<\/span>if you have<\/span>\u00a0to call somebody as a car<\/span>e<\/span>er testing engineer, that would be me, because my entire experience was in software testing and the quality\u00a0<\/span>engineering<\/span>\u00a0space. And in my current role, I manage the business operations\u00a0<\/span>for Cigniti<\/span>, a<\/span>nd I’m based out of Philadelphia.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>All right. Well, <\/span>thank you for that introduction and again<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>thank\u00a0<\/span>you gentlemen for joining us both.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Kevin<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0I want to kick it over to you with this first question about some of your experience.\u00a0<\/span>You’ve\u00a0<\/span>created Python,\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and ML<\/span>\u00a0training programs for testers. Can you share some more details about this and how it’s helping testers today?\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah<\/span>. So, again, back to the vision that I introduced. We’re looking forward to where testing will be a few years from now. And we started this again a few years back and we saw that\u00a0<\/span>A<\/span>I was up and coming.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Maybe it’s something that we should get interested in. And my team was just super excited about it. We heard a great presentation and we said, let’s do this. And we jumped right into artificial intelligence and we were just drownin<\/span>g<\/span>. It was a catastrophe, really. We had no idea what we were doing. And\u00a0<\/span>so,<\/span>\u00a0we decided to back up a little bit. OK, what should we learn before we learn artificial intelligence? We said, well, maybe we should learn some data analytics.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And we realized we don’t even know how to write code.\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0we should probably start with that. And that’s where we decided on Python. Why Python? Because Python is used for automation and testing as well as artificial intelligence. And we started out with really two different experience levels.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

We had people who were\u00a0really good\u00a0programmers and people who hadn’t written any code. And that created a great divide. And I decided, you know what, we can’t leave these people behind that are new to testing and new to coding.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And we created a<\/span>n<\/span>\u00a0introductory program for Python and used a book called\u00a0<\/span>\u2018<\/span>Beginning Python<\/span>\u2019<\/span>\u00a0and created some exercises for everybody to get up to speed. And then each of the engineers\u00a0<\/span>were<\/span>\u00a0actually required\u00a0to demo their work. And at first<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0we thought this would also be a disaster, experience<\/span>d<\/span>\u00a0engineers<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>why\u00a0<\/span>would they want to listen to these beginning exercises? But we found that the new coders\u00a0actually had\u00a0different ways of looking at things<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>When you<\/span>\u00a0get stuck looking at code for 20 years<\/span>, you\u00a0<\/span>maybe look at it one way and when you have somebody new who’s never written any code before, they look at things differently.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So,<\/span>\u00a0both the experience<\/span>d<\/span>\u00a0and the new programmers for learning things from each other as we develop this Python framework<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0Python learning program. And that then evolved into how\u00a0do we learn\u00a0data science, how do we learn machine learning. And\u00a0<\/span>so,<\/span>\u00a0I’ve\u00a0actually put\u00a0up this program on GitHub where people can go and follow<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0I’ll say<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0step by step<\/span>, but\u00a0<\/span>there’s a little jumping around that needs to be done to learn all the way from Python to automation, data science<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and then machine learning for testing.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I love the way that you guys take took your experience and where you were kind of heading and backing up a few steps to get your feet under you, and I think the experience that you shared there and what that process was like is can be really valuable to a lot of folks<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>Kevin<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0as we look at then the next steps.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Obviously\u00a0<\/span>when we say\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>people realize, OK, this has been a buzz word, it seems like for a while now. There’s a lot of talk, a lot of confusion around\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0and machine learning as you think about the future.\u00a0<\/span>Where do you see\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0actually helping\u00a0businesses where the rubber meets the road in the years to come<\/span>, Kevin?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>So,<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>the vision, the hope for everybody, I think, is someday,\u00a0<\/span>A<\/span>I will be able to do the testing for us. We’re not there yet. I’m not promoting that. That’s what’s happening right now. But what is\u00a0definitely here\u00a0is AI<\/span>–<\/span>based tools and\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0that helps us with our jobs. So<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0we shouldn’t look at it as\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0replacing testers yet<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0we shouldn’t look at it as\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0replacing really most of our processes yet.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

What\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0does right now is it helps us be better testers, meaning it takes out some of that mundane work that we wouldn’t like to do anyway. Or maybe as we’ll hear a little bit later,\u00a0<\/span>A<\/span>I can help us do things like prediction or analytics better than we’ve done in the past, which just allows us to do our jobs better. And I think that everyone should,\u00a0at this point in time\u00a0be on a roadmap, on a path to at least understanding how\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>is helping. And if you’re not, you are missing out. It’s kind of like<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>only using a hammer when you really need a screwdriver. There<\/span>\u00a0are<\/span>\u00a0just tools now that use\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0that can help us do our jobs better. That’s where I see<\/span>\u00a0it<\/span>\u00a0helping businesses right now. And of course, as it progresses, will gradually integrate it more fully into our processes and into our businesses in the future.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I love that perspective and\u00a0really great\u00a0context there<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0Kevin<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Speaking\u00a0<\/span>of perspective, <\/span>you’ve been in the Q<\/span>A<\/span>\u00a0space for over 20 years now. I imagine you have some thoughts on where you foresee the role of\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0in\u00a0<\/span>QA<\/span>\u00a0in the years to come as well.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker: <\/span><\/b>Absolutely.\u00a0<\/span>What\u00a0<\/span>I see, of course,\u00a0<\/span>doing testing<\/span>\u00a0takes time and a lot of investment. And by the time that the\u00a0<\/span>test<\/span>\u00a0code is completed and you around your test, the requirements are changing<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and applications are progressing with changes to business function<\/span>ality and<\/span>\u00a0UI. And so<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0you<\/span>r<\/span>\u00a0test automation needs to be adapted. So<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0this is what I call test automation trap that actually you’re not getting<\/span>\u00a0enough time, t<\/span>he\u00a0<\/span>t<\/span>est teams are not getting enough time to be able to do the failure\u00a0<\/span>triage<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>from the previous\u00a0<\/span>test run<\/span>\u00a0before building your next test automation code.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And I guess that is where I mean, yeah, can be really used to solve this dilemma and to\u00a0<\/span>accelerate<\/span>\u00a0the manual testing. So,\u00a0<\/span>with some of our clients, we\u00a0are<\/span>\u00a0able to\u00a0<\/span>apply AI<\/span>\u00a0in the context of\u00a0<\/span>prioritizing test cases\u00a0<\/span>and also maintaining the\u00a0<\/span>test<\/span>\u00a0automation code in an automated manner<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>as opposed to manually investigating what needs to be changed. And I expect that<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>over\u00a0a period of<\/span>\u00a0time<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0like\u00a0<\/span>Kevin<\/span>\u00a0mentioned<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>we are not there yet<\/span>. But then\u00a0<\/span>over a period of time, we see that<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>it can play<\/span>\u00a0a great role in the context of analyzing\u00a0<\/span>the<\/span>\u00a0test results and also deciding on what needs to be tested and things like that, which can happen freely without human intervention.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I appreciate that. <\/span>I think you and Kevin are doing a fantastic job of breaking down into specifics<\/span>\u00a0of<\/span>\u00a0this huge topic that is talked about a lot and bringing it back down to the day<\/span>–<\/span>to<\/span>–<\/span>day. Kevin, I want to kick it back over to you.\u00a0<\/span>We<\/span>\u00a0talked about some of your accomplishments in the training programs you’ve created. Something else you’ve worked on recently is developing a tester dashboard. Congratulations on this. I’ve heard good things.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Could you tell us a little bit more about the challenges your tool would address here?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah. So full credit goes to Domo on this one. For years I wanted a tester dashboard and that sounds like a simple thing, but the reality is we use so many different tools as testers and gathering\u00a0all of\u00a0that data into one place<\/span>\u00a0i<\/span>s just a really big challenge<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0That’s a big enough challenge. But once you’ve gathered the data, you want to create these cool charts<\/span>. Okay, f<\/span>ine, you can create charts\u00a0<\/span>on<\/span>\u00a0various tools, but how do you share this data with the rest of your company? And we came up with ideas like where we could put a TV up and then we can have a computer connected to it.\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0we<\/span>\u00a0could pull the data and then it’s like, well, yeah, but who’s going to update the data? And people only see it when they walk by it. How often do your executives really walk by your TV<\/span>\u00a0t<\/span>hat’s in some dungeon somewhere<\/span>?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0the challenge was how do we get a dashboard that people are\u00a0actually going\u00a0to see? And again, full credit to Domo. When I came to Domo, I was able to build a dashboard in a very, very short amount of time. And the advantage to the\u00a0<\/span>D<\/span>o<\/span>mo dashboard is I can pull in my data from anywhere and then I can visualize that data using hundreds of different chart types.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>But then\u00a0really important\u00a0is being able to share that data with everyone.\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0with\u00a0<\/span>Domo<\/span>, I have the\u00a0<\/span>Domo<\/span>\u00a0app on my phone. All of my executives have the same app on their phone<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and I can just share my dashboard with everyone throughout the company and they can see the status updates in real<\/span>–<\/span>time using JIRA content<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0test drill, enterprise tester,\u00a0<\/span>GitHub,\u00a0<\/span>whatever<\/span>\u00a0and<\/span>\u00a0wherever that data is located. We can bring\u00a0all of\u00a0that data into one place and then share it across<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>email<\/span>, the Domo app,\u00a0<\/span>or numerous other ways.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>So that’s the power in this dashboard. And of course, from my perspective, the power is in the<\/span>\u00a0\u2013\u00a0<\/span>I have three or four cards,\u00a0Wukong\u00a0cards or charts that we put on this dashboard<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>They<\/span>\u00a0give a quick status update. And I believe the<\/span>y<\/span>\u00a0answer just about any question that executives would ask<\/span>\u00a0\u2013\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0what’s the status of the project? Are we ready to ship? How many bugs are coming in? And then how do we feel about the release?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And\u00a0all of\u00a0those questions are answered using this teste<\/span>r<\/span>\u00a0dashboard.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Absolutely. Anytime you can get data from different places all in one spot, that’s going to\u00a0help out\u00a0any team for sure<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0Kevin<\/span>. S<\/span>peaking of\u00a0<\/span>dashboard, Cigniti\u00a0<\/span>has also recently developed a predictive dashboard and it’s been deployed at several enterprise accounts. Can you tell us what this dashboard is and some of the unique qualities of it?\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker: <\/span><\/b>A<\/span>bsolutely.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0the dashboard\u00a0<\/span>that you are<\/span>\u00a0talking about<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>w<\/span>e call it\u00a0<\/span>as\u00a0<\/span>Quality Engineering<\/a> Dashboard. And the internal name that we gave to that is\u00a0<\/span>Verita, which means<\/span>\u00a0basically a single source of truth. And if you really look at it<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0as more and more<\/span>\u00a0organizations<\/span>\u00a0are moving into agile\u00a0<\/span>and DevOps a<\/span>nd there is a great need to get real<\/span>–<\/span>time<\/span>\u00a0insights and analytics. And so that the teams\u00a0are able to\u00a0act decisively in terms of the changes that need to be done to the projects.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And of course, something like this is also needed to be able to make\u00a0<\/span>release<\/span>\u00a0readiness\u00a0<\/span>decisions<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And\u00a0<\/span>the dashboard that we have built<\/span>, i<\/span>t comes with the ability to analyze the data\u00a0and also\u00a0provide<\/span>s<\/span>\u00a0the\u00a0<\/span>data from a descriptive,\u00a0<\/span>diagnostic<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0predict<\/span>ive<\/span>, and also prescriptive\u00a0<\/span>point\u00a0<\/span>of<\/span>\u00a0view. So not only it can tell you what happened, but the dashboard, we sort of included the\u00a0<\/span>AI-ML<\/span>\u00a0features into the quality engineering dashboard. It also\u00a0has the ability to\u00a0predict what could happen based on their previous projects of similar size and scope. And\u00a0<\/span>also,<\/span>\u00a0the portal that we<\/span>\u2019v<\/span>e built, basically the quality engineering<\/span> portal,<\/span>\u00a0it has the ability to be configured to different roles so that every new individual and being<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0they have got the necessary things that are important for them.\u00a0And in essence, the\u00a0dashboard that we’ve built, it is ultimately built to drive better business outcomes and improve predictability and also\u00a0<\/span>accelerate t<\/span>he transformation that is happening within\u00a0<\/span>the organizations.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah, I really appreciate that breakdown<\/span>, <\/span>Kevin, we’ve talked about some hot topics bringing data together.\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0talent both in\u00a0<\/span>QA<\/span>\u00a0and beyond is a hot topic, I think, for every leader, regardless of what department or function they head up. Could you take a second to give us your take on retaining top tech talent as well as finding that talent retaining it? I think for leaders listening to this, that would be great to hear<\/span>\u00a0a little bit of your perspective on that today as well.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>When\u00a0<\/span>it comes to recruiting top talent. It’s\u00a0really important\u00a0to have a vision that people get\u00a0<\/span>buy<\/span>–<\/span>in<\/span>. And we can put all the beanbag chairs and free meals and whatever other perks that are hot right now in front of people. But the reality is engineers are jumping company to company. And the reason they’re doing that is\u00a0<\/span>because<\/span>\u00a0they’re not bought into the vision of that company.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And there<\/span>\u00a0are<\/span>\u00a0two aspects of that. First off is we\u00a0have to\u00a0have a vision, but then we have to share that vision and get people to buy into that vision. When they bought into the vision, they’re not there just for a\u00a0<\/span>pay check<\/span>. They’re there for a\u00a0<\/span>bigger cause. I think that’s something that’s really helped with my team, is the team is interested in this greater vision of how do we apply\u00a0<\/span>enough<\/span>\u00a0testing, how do we learn about\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>and how do we build these skill sets and then how do we apply this not just locally for our team, but I have people that are now speaking<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>that would never have thought of speaking to large audiences. And they’re able to do that now because they’ve caught that vision and they have this strong desire to share what they’ve been learning with others. Now you have people that are advocates for what you’re doing, and that’s so much more than just an employee<\/span>, right<\/span>. When we have advocates for the cause that we’re about. And so that that’s how you recruit people because people see that excitement. They see that vision. They see that mission. And then they want to stay because they want to be part of that greater cause. And I think if we could do that yet, people still need to get paid. They still need to buy their homes and their cars or whatever else it is that they desire.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>But they’re more out to stay longer. Especially when you’re generally offering similar compensation. That vision is what’s really going to keep people.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah, I completely agree with you there, Kevin, and I love the way that you broke it down into two steps. You\u00a0have to\u00a0have a vision, right? I think there are many organizations where that vision statement is collecting dust on a wall somewhere or in a plaque. And then you\u00a0have to\u00a0actively share it. When it comes to differentiating yourself from other big players in your market in recruiting top tech talent, do you think that sharing that vision more publicly is one of the\u00a0key ways\u00a0to be able to do that?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Or do you have any other strategies or thoughts around that in that differentiation pieces<\/span>\u00a0as<\/span>\u00a0talent is becoming more competitive to be able to bring those people into the organization.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I think that’s a great question, really. The more you can advocate that vision, the more people are just drawn to what you’re doing<\/span>, right<\/span>. And you can see when companies have lost sight of that vision. Look at some of the big tech companies that are out there.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>They grew really fast and everybody wanted to work for that company. Why? It wasn’t because of the money, although people are definitely drawn to that. It’s because of that bigger vision. And then once that vision has kind of wane<\/span>d<\/span>\u00a0and people say they really care about that anymore, are they really focused on that? That’s when people start to drop off or people don’t care to work for that company anymore.\u00a0<\/span>So,<\/span>\u00a0in my case, some things that we’ve been doing is just getting out into the local community.<\/span>\u00a0T<\/span>hat’s where we’re most likely going to hire the talent. And I’ve had people come up to me after presenting at these meetups and say, I want to work for you. And that’s like, what do you mean you want to work for me? I want to work for somebody who has that vision, who cares that much about where they are and where they’re going, that it’s not. They even say it’s not\u00a0<\/span>about the company, although it helps that they work for a great company with great vision and a great product.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>But they also say, I’d like to work for you because you can see\u00a0<\/span>that,<\/span>\u00a0and you can help me in my career\u00a0<\/span>to\u00a0<\/span>accomplish this vision. And, in my case, it’s about pushing\u00a0<\/span>AI<\/span>\u00a0and testing forward and doing great things in this industry.\u00a0<\/span>People\u00a0<\/span>are drawn to that<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t agree more<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0Kevin<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0Well, I really appreciate your thoughts there on talent retention and developing that vision that people can get behind and draw them in with that as well. Two more<\/span>\u00a0topics\u00a0<\/span>I want to cover with you gentlemen while I’ve got you<\/span>\u00a0b<\/span>efore we round out today and that is DevOps as well as the role of IP<\/span>. On D<\/span>ev<\/span>O<\/span>ps\u00a0<\/span>real<\/span>\u00a0quick<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>Kevin, there’s a lot of discussion around DevOps and the rapid pace of adoption really across industries<\/span>.\u00a0<\/span>Can you give us your perspective on this as we kind of wind things down today?\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>This may not be a popular opinion, but<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>may be he <\/span>has a different perspective on this for me.\u00a0<\/span>DevOps\u00a0<\/span>is very similar to all of the other, I guess, transformations that have been either claimed\u00a0<\/span>and, in some cases,<\/span>\u00a0applied. We can look back and we had Waterfall, which was actually a name given to product development after the fact.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Then we had agile. Now we have\u00a0<\/span>DevOps<\/span>. There’s been a rebranding called\u00a0<\/span>DevSecOps<\/span>. And I was actually at a meetup recently that called it\u00a0<\/span>Q<\/span>A<\/span>SecD<\/span>ev<\/span>O<\/span>ps<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>just to make sure we got everybody involved in this transformation. And\u00a0<\/span>so<\/span>\u00a0what? The way I look at\u00a0<\/span>DevOps<\/span>\u00a0along with although their transformations\u00a0<\/span>are<\/span>\u00a0what you really need to do is look at your business. What does your business need and what best practices are good practices out there that can be applied to your company<\/span>?\u00a0<\/span>And why are we always looking externally for solutions when we probably have a lot of really smart people internally that could help us develop our own techniques and business processes, dev processes<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and techniques<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>We\u00a0<\/span>should probably do a better job there and we can improve what we have<\/span>.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>B<\/span>ecause a lot of times<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0the Facebooks, the Googles, the Microsofts with, thousands and thousands of developers can do is different from the rest of the world.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>And so<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0we need to look at what makes sense for our companies and apply whatever new terminology we want to apply. But more important, apply practices that will help us develop better products that suit the needs of our customers and our businesses.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I love it, Kevin<\/span>. I love a passion and opinion on anything, and you’ve definitely given us that on a few areas. <\/span>I want\u00a0<\/span>to kick it over to you as we got a little bit of time left here to talk about the role of IP in quality assurance.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>Can you tell us a little bit about\u00a0<\/span>Cigniti\u2019s\u00a0<\/span>investments in this area as of late as we wind down today?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker: <\/span><\/b>Absolutely.\u00a0<\/span>S<\/span>ince the beginning of the company, we just didn’t want to be another services company. We want to be a services company with strong differentiation. And that was the reason why we dialogued\u00a0<\/span>Cigniti<\/span>\u00a0IP, which we call as a\u00a0<\/span>BlueSwan<\/span>. And the\u00a0<\/span>Bl<\/span>u<\/span>eSwan<\/span><\/a>\u00a0is a next<\/span>–<\/span>generation proprietary testing platform that has got a set of tools, process assets<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0and utilities. And the way to think about the IP, that\u00a0<\/span>we have developed is<\/span>\u00a0that say that there are two testing units with equal\u00a0<\/span>skills,<\/span>\u00a0and one is equipped\u00a0<\/span>with BlueSwan and the\u00a0<\/span>other one is not<\/span>. The\u00a0<\/span>one that is\u00a0<\/span>equipped with BlueSwan\u00a0<\/span>is going to be a lot more productive in what they do and because they have the right\u00a0<\/span>tool<\/span>set to do it. And the\u00a0<\/span>BlueSwan<\/span>\u00a0itself, this IP, it has got a great impact in terms of reducing the testing costs and also greatly improving the efficiency and effectiveness of the\u00a0<\/span>overall<\/span>\u00a0testing as well. And it is domain agnostic, which means that it could be used across all different verticals and also with different company sizes as well.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I love it. <\/span>Thank you again for some very specific<\/span>s<\/span>\u00a0to something that I think a lot of our listeners are keen to know more about. Kevin, as we wind down today, I would love for you to share with listeners if folks listening to this have follow up questions or would like to stay connected with you or learn more about what you and the team at\u00a0<\/span>Domo<\/span>\u00a0are up to these days<\/span>, what’s\u00a0<\/span>the best way for them to reach out or learn more?<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevin<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I’m on LinkedIn and that’s probably the best way to contact me. You can just send a message there. But\u00a0<\/span>also,<\/span>\u00a0on Twitter and love to hear what people are doing on either LinkedIn or Twitter. Those are the best options. But if you contact me there and we need further conversations<\/span>, I would be happy to<\/span>\u00a0give out my email.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span>Logan<\/span><\/b>:<\/span><\/b>\u00a0<\/span>I<\/span>t sounds good. That’s the ways for me as well. Kevin, I appreciate it. All right. <\/span>how about you? What’s the best way for someone to reach out if they’re interested in anything that you’ve talked about today or just delving more into some of the\u00a0<\/span>Cigniti<\/span>\u2019s<\/span>\u00a0technologies that you’ve shared with us today?\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Logan<\/span><\/b>:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>All right, <\/span>Thank you so much for your contributions today. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us as a guest. I really enjoyed the conversation today, gentlemen.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Cigniti Speaker: <\/span><\/b>Thank you for having us.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Kevi<\/span><\/b>n:\u00a0<\/span><\/b>I really appreciate the invite and the conversation. Thank you.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Quality assurance is vital to the success of an organization\u2019s digital transformation. Lack of control can quickly derail a company\u2019s technological presence, costing thousands. At Cigniti, our resolution is to build a better world with better quality software. Renowned for the global quality thought leadership in the industry, we draw expertise from over a decade of test engineering experience across verticals. To learn how we do it, visit cigniti.com.\u00a0<\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

You have been listening to QA talks. To ensure that you never miss ay episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening, until next time.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Speakers:\u00a0Kevin Pyles<\/strong>, Director of QA at Domo;\u00a0Cigniti (A Coforge Company) Speaker<\/strong>
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